July 20, 2019 at 6:44 am #11244
Played a good few hours on the Thursday test so far, and have quite a few thoughts on the Deathmatch portion of the game, as well as the game in general. I’ll try and filter it down to the most important things I think needs resolved for the game to get to a good starting point with 1.0. There will be some harsh critique here, but that’s just because I love you guys and want the game to be the best it can be and a worthy follow up to Rune. I will try to keep this short and concise. Feel free to let me know if I need to expand on anything.
Combat feels a lot better in some ways, but still suffers from some of the same problems it had earlier.
The absolute most important thing as I see it is the feel of the combat and weapons. Many of the weapons don’t feel right. Attacks feel very horizontal focused, and combos are very hard to identify. In many cases the combo’s look almost identical to simply chaining normal attacks. Compare this to Rune Classic where every weapon has clearly identifiable standard attacks, directional attacks, and combo attacks. I know this is a big one to tackle and get *right*, but it really needs doubled down on. More verticality to attacks and “X”-strikes would go a long way.
The two weakest weapons currently in terms of feel are the Hand Axe and Viking Sword, IMO. Hand axe has a very weird combo. The Viking Sword still feels like it doesn’t have enough weight/heft/momentum for a sword that size. I’d say to look at how the Roman Sword handles in Rune Classic to get a better feel for how the Viking Sword should feel and behave. In fact, I would suggest going to Rune Classic and look closer at the weapons there and try to bring over more of that feel to Rune II. For instance, the Greatsword would benefit from taking a closer look at the Viking Broadsword.
Movement feels a little too floaty still. Jumps feel slow and floaty.
It is great that we can now aim our attacks up and down, but that begs the question why we would to the spear down-stab jump attack rather than just aiming a normal stab down. Same with the other standing jump attacks. I think these jump attacks should have increased damage (didn’t check numbers, so not sure if they do or not) to give an incentive to use them over a standard attack if the opportunity arises. While speaking of this, the unarmed standing jump attack should be some kind of stomp move for sure. Would make more sense and look more brutal to bring your heel(s) down rather than your fist.
Another huge issue is hit detection. I know there’s latency issues sometimes, but it seems incredibly random when a hit connects or not. There were many, many occasions when my weapon arc went clear through an enemy without detecting any hit. Likewise, it seems very hard to score glancing blows, like when the weapon is at the end of its’ swing. Not sure how hard that would be to program, but if you were to hit an enemy with your weapon in the last frames of the attack animation, even if it just causes half the damage or something of a clean hit.
I know there’s already talks of adding forward dodge, so I won’t talk about that. What I would say is that if you attack while sprinting you triggered a lunge attack. This would be great for stabbing runners through the back when you’re right behind them, as currently it’s IMPOSSIBLE to hit someone you’re chasing even when you’re close enough to nibble their earlobe. And at that range you shouldn’t have to throw your weapon.
When you get killed in DM it would be great if instead of simply saying “KILLED” or whatever, it actually said “You were KILLED by Bringer of Pain” or something like that, as I found it was impossible to tell who I got killed by if they attacked from behind or something.
Inventory system is jarring as hell in DM, but I know this is being looked at as well. Having to manage an inventory screen is a no-no. The DM inventory should be almost identical to Rune Classic. I don’t think you should be able to carry any consumables. It should all be activate on pickup. On death you should drop everything you had, apart from armor which I believe is just cosmetic anyway in DM, (and should be changed in a customization screen similar to picking your skin in Rune Classic)
I’ll write more in this thread as I remember more, but having too little time to actually sit and compose this, so will leave it with this for now XD
But bottom line: I had damn fun playing, and that’s the most important part!
July 20, 2019 at 12:06 pm #11250
Hey Torulf! Great to see your feedback here. I’ll try to go point by point on this.
• Combo system vs spamming attacks is something we’re looking at to tune to what feels right.
• Good points on the Hand axe and Viking Sword. I’ll pass those along.
• Hit detection and latency is something that we’ve noticed with this beta test too. It’s being actively worked on to improve it.
• Your idea for attacking while sprinting and how to handle that is a great idea, I’ll pass that to the team.
• Having a kill screen is something that we’re seeing a lot of community feedback about. We’re listening.
• We’re still looking into ways that we can fine tune the inventory management experience in PvP. I know that dropping everything on death vs only dropping your equipped weapon on death is something that we’ve had conversations about internally.
Keep the feedback coming!
July 21, 2019 at 9:58 am #11269
Cheers Mitch! Good to get you guys replying to our posts in here! 😀
July 20, 2019 at 3:41 pm #11256
Torulf really hit the nail on the head. I really enjoyed the test and it is much better than the alpha from a year ago. To Torulf’s suggestions, I add to remove some damage from arrows, fire weapons by at least 50%, and definitely model the Greatsword more like Broadsword in Rune Classic, as this perceptive gamer suggested. I felt like I was getting “toe” hits like in classic’s Worksword, but some of this may be netcode latency. Lastly, make the armor protect the player more, because I really did not feel the difference regardless of grade. The jumping needs to be more authoritative. We need to be able to jump higher, farther and faster; Seems about 15 to 20% more than presently. Make sure you release some new version of Arena (Halls of Valhalla) within a year, and in time for STEAM. – Always keep in mind that most players that continued playing played Arena 1.06 and 1.07.
It looks much better, with excellent framerates. Good lighting, and good draw distance. Many of the weapons are already working very well. Especially blocking mechanic. It really does feel much more like Rune, and that bodes well. Take your time. Most of us don’t care if you push release to Fall. I think you are at about 80-85% before it’s ready and much of this depends on how well admins are able to take control of their servers. Good job Human Head Studios!
July 20, 2019 at 4:24 pm #11258
Cheers for the kind words and added points, Terminus! Totally agree about arrows and fire! Got oneshotted by arrows on several occasions!
Just two quick notes; I didn’t really mean to make the greatsword look more like the Broadsword, just meant in terms of how it feels and attacks. I’m fairly certain I saw a new version of the actual Viking Broadsword in a screenshot or video at some point too. Unless it was dropped or turned into the current greatsword (which looks dope, btw!)
And secondly – Armor in Deathmatch is cosmetic only. No stats or armor rating. 🙂
July 21, 2019 at 10:18 am #11270
Couple of more things:
Blocking with weapons should be a timed block, meaning you can’t hold block down indefinitely. This will prevent a lot of block spamming and promote feints and such, encouraging more skillful playstyles.
Shields however should be able to block indefinitely, and when hit will absorb damage. However, to get the most out of it and, again, encourage more skillful play, I’d suggest giving shield blocks a timed mechanic as well, where actually timing your block doesn’t just block the damage, but also staggers your opponent.
More on blocking: Activating block should look snappier. Particularly the shield block activates sooooo very slowly. The block mechanic itself seems to be quicker than the animation though, so it’s just the animation that needs sped up. I also think blocking with a shield should slow your movement slightly. Not a huge amount, but enough to make a bit of difference. I also think (and this is visual fluff only) that blocking, particularly with a shield, shouldhave the character take a more braced stance. Feet wider apart and a little hunkered down. But this is totally nitpicking.
Unarmed fighting is awesome, but it does so little damage that’s it no real threat to anyone with full health. I feel unarmed attack damage should be doubled as a minimum. I also suggest changing the forward ump attack to something like a superman punch rather than the spinning one, which looks weird, and the standing jump attack/dive attack to a heel stomp, for that extra brutal flavor.
I also second Bringer of Pain’s suggestion (along with almost all his points!) to make kick available at all times, not just when unarmed! This begs the question whether Unarmed needs a new power attack though, and what that would be. Maybe a brutal jump forward with a headbutt 😛
Lastly, I think I have realized finally why I dislike the blue outline around weapons/pickups so much. I think it’s because when you kill someone, you immediately see this outline around severed arms or heads or weapons they drop, and it pops out so clearly that it distracts you from the glory of the kill. You don’t really see the trail of blood from the arm flying through the air. You just see an arm-like objects surrounded by a blue glow.
This is why I think that blue glow needs to go, or have it bound to a key to highlight objects just like in Diablo II. That would be a good compromise, I think.
That’s it for now! Posted in Bringer of Pain’s thread as well, and totally encourage all to read that and comment there!
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