December 21, 2017 at 3:34 pm #1550
December 21, 2017 at 5:40 pm #1552
Would love to see weapons be more balanced in Rune Ragnarok, would like to see more variety in weapon moves, and abilities too.
Most weapons in Rune did have their own attacks with some exceptions that some attacks were shared, but mostly there was only 2 jump spin animation attacks across all of the weapons.
Would’t mind weapons having different unique stats / perks, maybe some weapons cause more stun than others, or knock down, or knock back, maybe besides having a headshot % you can have other types of special damage.
Would like to see viable low cal weapons. Would like to see weapon/shield balance, for example someone using the viking broadsword should only be able to use a small buckler, not a huge tower / dwarf shield.
Would like it if some hammers did more than an overhead attack.
Rune Ragnarok should also have a different dynamic, being passive in Rune was a huge bonus, and I think it had to do with how weapons checked hit, if 2 people attack at the same time but one is back peddling and the other is going forward the defensive player will have the advantage even though if 2 people are using melee weapons that shouldn’t matter, and I would like to see the AGGRESSIVE player have the advantage, not the defensive player.
And although it is not weapons, but more combat mechanics I would like to see simultaneous damage, that means 2 people can kill, or hit each other at “the same time” instead of the person who hit .01 seconds sooner get the kill, simultaneous damage is realistic, fun, and good game mechanics.
Would like to see some kind of nerf or deterrent for jump spin spamming, stamina bar, or slower running movement within a certain time frame of spinning to encourage more dynamic combat, not must repetition of a single move.
December 22, 2017 at 12:09 am #1556
Favorite weapons were definitely dwarf worksword and viking broadsword, followed by the dwarf battleaxe. Worst weapons were arguably rusty mace and bone club but most of their failures came down to their weapon arts (i.e., swing styles) and poor range, not their damage. Having more appealing weapon arts for smaller weapons in general should keep them more in par with the bigger weapons (one of the greatest flaws of the original’s weapon design).
As for mechanics, I’d obviously love the original’s melee arcade experience to be replicated in Rune Ragnarok as much as possible, though I know that won’t really be possible in an rpg setting. Along with several others, I already described my worries over the stat and level system and how that could reduce combat to simply who has the better stats or gear, rather than who has better skill, speed, foot placement, etc. like in the original.
As for more specifics (including several new questions):
1. I hope there is a solid parry system in the game that makes sense. Parries in the original rarely worked and if they did, they often went outside the weapon models and looked really awkward.
2. I agree with Weapon Master that simultaneous damage should be a thing, and not just the exclusive luxury of throwers who die right after releasing their weapons.
3. As for weapon spam, I don’t see anything particularly wrong with it so long as constant spam is not overpowered. In the original, those who spam-jumped the battleaxe, for example, were easy to kill because they were predictable. Change-ups were essential for a solid ground game in the original Rune, so having a similar balance here would be nice.
4. However, one thing I would love to see stick around the most (though I know won’t for realism-reasons) is the ability to completely control the rotation of your character and the drag of your weapon. Besides adding endless comic value by allowing you to kill people while spinning around like an animal, it provided arguably the most liberating control over your combat actions.
5. Similarly, being able to constantly swing your weapon without pause, such as the two-hit dwarf worksword repetition, allowed for incredibly fast-paced, adrenaline-fueled battles that I continue to enjoy to this day. But in order to retain this freedom and speed, there is a question of stamina. More specifically, are you guys introducing stamina bars/limits into the game, or will we be able to swing like animals to our hearts’ content like in the original?
6. Chris mentioned the possibility of finishing moves in the game. If we are to use Skyrim as an example, those finishing moves, besides completely interrupting the game, became stale and clunky. While they looked cool at first, it severely slowed down the combat, giving random absurd immunity to characters as they performed them. If such finishing moves are exclusive to rune powers, then perhaps there won’t be any issues; so I hope Chris can clarify whether HumanHead’s ideas for finishing moves will impede on the fluidity, speed and freedom of players during combat — as compared to the original Rune.
7. I am also curious how shields will work in this game. Will they drain your health when struck or will they have their own item health like in the original? Will there be attacks players can do with shields or are they meant only to defend against attacks? If the shield loses it’s health, will it completely shatter or will it still serve some utility during combat? Will it completely stop all projectiles? What about magic-related attacks?
8. Also, will there be a hand-to-hand combat system, along with kicks and other options? If limb-related attacks are continued in this game (thank you for that), then I am curious how much broader you guys are intending to go with this.
9. Another fun-related question is if there will be opportunities to fall on other people’s heads/bodies and kill them? While there won’t be trampolines, I am curious whether this element will be preserved.
And on a final note, excellent job in the last video. Wishing you all a great holiday season.
December 22, 2017 at 5:06 pm #1574
On question 1 above, what exactly can we expect for parries. Will it be an automatic system of chance like the original where weapons hitting each other is enough to stop an attack (even if the parrying player did not swing their weapon), or do you have to use a command to parry (like in Chivalry)? Do parries completely nullify damage or do the parried strikes still do damage and/or drain stamina? Imo, having a hit box-based parry system like in the original would work best and would avoid over-complicating the combat.
Similarly, will be there be a button-based counter riposte system and what else can we expect for defensive combat mechanics?
December 27, 2017 at 1:09 pm #1603
Last few thoughts.
1. I probably wasn’t clear enough on this, but I would prefer no finishing moves at all (at least in PVP). A simple slash and decapitation like in the original would suffice to ensure a fast-paced combat without any abrupt stops because of cinematic finishers. Perhaps one’s swings can decapitate people in different ways depending on the angle and point of contact but that kind of finishing move should not include immunity or cinematic effects.
2. Will Rune’s dodging mechanic, or something similar to it, exist in Rune Ragnarok?
3. Will there be feint mechanics? In games like Chivalry, this kind of feature made combat incredibly boring because feints were near-impossible to predict and made combat more about guessing and luck than actual skill. This is why a dodge mechanic like the original rune could server as a decent substitute for any feint mechanic.
December 27, 2017 at 1:37 pm #1604
(Forum bugged and made a third separate post; don’t know why)
4. Chris confirmed that you can throw weapons in quick succession like in the original. This presents a potential complication for PVP. Presumably, this means you would be able to throw any weapon (including bows) at someone else regardless of its stats. So the first question is, how will throw damage be calculated?
Second and most importantly, will other players be able to pick up those same weapons and throw them back at you or actually use them against you normally? For example, if I farmed a rare weapon and mid-combat I throw it at someone else, are they able to pick it up and start slashing me with my weapon? Is there a system in place to make sure that they can’t just steal the weapon outright since it’s in their possession during combat? Gameplay-wise, how are you going to balance this?
This presents another complication. If combat is reduced to who has better stats, levels, abilities, which I personally oppose, then if someone else picks up a weapon you threw at them, then they could presumably be penalized in terms of damage or usability because of stat requirements. This would disincentivize throwing and/or dynamic weapon-changing combat. How will this problem be resolved, or will you guys simply revert to the arcade-style PVP system of the original to avoid these headaches?
December 22, 2017 at 7:16 am #1557
As for original Rune, almost all weapons below Tier 3 become obsolete, except Rusty mace with its shockwave powerup and Goblin axe. I preferred swords because of their ability to chop off limbs and both hammers against enemies with shields. Generally all Tier 3 and above weapons are good except for Sigurd
s axe. Compared for Trial Mace its a piece of junk – they both deal the same damage (The Mace does 30 Blunt type damage and The Axe is 30 of Bluntsever – as seen in the RuneEd) but the mace is much faster, allows you the shield carrying and has great powerup ability (I mean the Circle of fire, not that thing from Rune Classic). The powerups I dislike are the Lightning for DWS (it
s even considered as cheating by some players) and Damage for DBA (because it consumes lots of rune power and doesnt really give you some special ability).
As said above, please make light weapons effective. Well, they are short ranged and do little damage, but at least make them quick and controllable. Plus give heavy weapons some penalty to your body balance. Also, IMO the rune powers for the heavier weapons should have shorter range (contrary to their long melee range). Special ranged weapons like spears or possibly slings are definitely the great addition especially if you decide to let them keep the activated rune power when you toss them.
As for the bows, I don
t know. I believe the game will be focused on the close combat so you wont have much time to draw, aim and shoot when the opponent rushes towards you with his shield raised. The bows are good for camping in cover but it possibly can ruin the gameflow turning it from action to tower defense/siege simulator.
The other thing I`d like to see (I probably mentioned it some time ago) is the progressing ability to block attack with your weapons, not only shields. Like, as you develop the parrying skill you decrease received damage until zero, then open the ability to disarm the opponent, then disarm and toss his weapon at the other target. The thing is how to make controls responsive and not too complicated (If anyone played Shadow warrior 2013 and used the Katana powers you know what I mean).
December 24, 2017 at 11:11 am #1587
Visually, I want the weapons to look well worn, functional and deadly. The battleaxe we’ve seen in screens so far feels a bit…. meh…. It’s mainly the haft I don’t like. It’s too clunky of a haft, with weird metal rings framing the handle, and an ugly mace-head at the butt, which should just be removed entirely. It should look more rugged and with more rough leather wrapped around it, like the haft of the axe the Santa-Viking holds up on your holiday artwork. Actually, I hope an axe like that one is in the game! I also don’t like how the viking in the screenshot holds this battleaxe. At the bottom, hands close together as if it was a sword. It just doesn’t look right. One hand should be at the bottom of the haft, the other held just under the axe head. Although I recognize that these may just be placeholder stances and animations.
Something that has been hard to see properly so far is the thickness of the weapons. I LOVED how the weapons in Rune felt fucking VICIOUS! They were big and chunky looking, but when you saw them from the right angle, they were really thin and sharp as HELL looking. I had no problem imagining these things slicing through flesh, unlike weapons in many other games *cough* Oblivion/Skyrim *cough*
Those are my only real hopes for the weapons. Had no issues with the weapons in Rune Classic, really. Well, the Sark-level weapons were too much. Was never a huge fan of those, though I can understand why many like the DBA, as it does look pretty good. Again, big blade, but it is THIN and SHARP looking.
Now, I WOULD, however, really love to see something based on this in the game…
It’s not viking age, but it IS based on a find from Sweden, dated to about -50 to 50 CE. It’s a single-edged so-called “war knife” about 80 cm in length, so it’s practically a sword anyway. Just make it more worn and aged looking, put some leather wrap around the hilt, and presto! A fucking awesome looking thing!
December 24, 2017 at 4:14 pm #1593
So I think I have a little bit different perspective than the previous posters. I mostly played arena and specialized in low caliber weapons, that is tier 1 and 2 weapons. So for me the power-ups were not relevant, only the moveset. The Goblin Axe, Roman Sword, and Viking Short Sword stood out as being the best options.
The Goblin Axe was fast and had excellent reach. It was great for reaching around the shields of Viking Broad Sword users as well as exploiting the weak spots in tier 5 weapon movesets. Similarly the Viking Short Sword was also good against tier 5 weapons if additional speed was desired or change up was required to keep the opponent off balance.
I used the Roman Sword mainly for dealing with Dwarven Work Sword (DWS) users. The DWS was arguably the best weapon from Rune and definitely the most popular among Arena players. Fighting a DWS with a Goblin Axe is likely to get ones head cut off. The Roman sword allowed for some additional distance as well good head shot potential. I would also swap to the Roman Sword if a Broadsword user broke my shield, as reaching around the opponent’s shield with a Goblin Axe usually meant taking hits on my own shield.
The other low caliber weapons were not much to write home about. The Hand Axe and Bone Club were serviceable, but there was no reason to really use them over other weapon (unless you had breakable weapons turned on). The Rusty Mace was really only useful as a projectile. Typically these three I would just use as projectiles.
I would like to see the return of the Goblin Axe, Roman Sword, and Viking Short Sword. The other three I don’t really care about, but if they don’t return I would still like to see something in their place.
I would actually find it interesting to see all the original weapons return. Then in addition another set of new weapons. That way there are options at each tier and type.
December 26, 2017 at 9:39 pm #1600
as rune players come from a multitude of game versions and playmodes, i want to state my point of view:
competitive rune hov team deathmatch without runes.
weapons i dont like / dont use / dont pick up:
rusty mace: doesnt add any value over the handaxe, in fact its range and attack patterns are worse.
bone club: odd attack patterns, handaxe overall still is the more reliable weapon.
goblin axe: slightly stronger than the handaxe, can be useful in low caliber fights, but it lacks the speed (swing to impact) to be as useful as the handaxe.
viking sword: low damage makes it a rather gimmicki weapon – can be useful because of the high attack speed, yet low damage and low range limit the potential – after all its the smallest sword, right?
roman sword: while i didnt use it in clan wars at all, its kinda solid – but lacks the range – short weapon and swings dont cover a big area. other weapons of one higher tier (viking axe, trial pit mace, broad sword) are a WAY better option to go for.
dwarf battle sword / odinsblade: very odd animations / attack patterns. thats really about it. it has huge damage and dismemberchance, but it has very little attacks to pull reliable damage out of it. it has a mediocre range, doesnt combo at all, and only has few useable attacks, which makes it kinda predictable after a while. i’d pick it over the handaxe, but not necessarily over trial pit / viking axe and up.
sigurds axe: while its not bad at all, im not exactly looking for it when there is a DBA on the map – it probably doesnt deserve to be in the list, since it can still 1hit kill with its spin after you generate a little bit of fury and has decent range and attack animations besides that, but its a bit of an oddball for me. personally i just dont dig it – if hard pressed i will of course use it, and probably do pretty well with it, because it plays like other axes. i just dont prefer to.
the dwarf work hammer is the slightly better weapon overall and usually is as easy to reach. but in the end, there really is nothing “bad” about sigurds axe, maybe the design could be a little more engaging.
weapons i love / use / pick up:
handaxe: very reliable weapon – tho its the starter weapon and needs three hits, its possible to land them on any foe if ur the more skilled player. also makes a great throwing weapon to finish the running honorless. game design wise its the perfect starting weapon.
viking axe: not very popular, but the spinning attack is really good on it – hammers and axes are easy to defeat with the right timing – dws gets doable with a shield. overall great pickup to fight your way to more powerful weapons.
trial pit mace: the only one handed weapon that can 1hit kill with its spin – in fact its more powerful than sigurds axe when picked up after spawn. only caveat is the low range, but it can be paired with a shield, which makes up for it. can be “end game” weaponry in the hands of a skilled player. because the spin is so powerful, normal attacks are not really worth it.
broad sword: i love that one. its being overshadowed by the damage and dismember potential of the dws (and also is not as straight forward), but its a way more fun weapon to play. its fast, it has huge range, it combos awesomely. it has ALOT of useful attack patterns. great weapon, great weapon design – i love its appearance.
dwarf work hammer: its a workhorse, swung or thrown. its basically the battle hammer with less attack range, but makes a great throwing weapon. not necessarily 1st pick vs sword focused enemies.
dwarf work sword: awesome to snipe out decapitations with aimed single swings – combos are good, range is good, damage is good. its probably the most rounded weapon, since it has very little weaknesses. i love playing vs hammers and axes with it – dws 1n1 can be tiring after a while because its not as versitale as the broadsword (and actually has a hard time vs broadsword + shield) and also is not so great for alot of vertical fighting in small areas (e.g. bothvar) vs hammers and axes.
dwarf battle axe: most iconic weapon of rune – imho. i love its design and appearance. gameplay wise the spin attack is extremely strong if timed and aimed carefully – but also has its weaknesses in those areas. normal attacks offer some options to vary outside of spin attacks. by far my most favorite “big calibre” weapon.
dwarf battle hammer: up until that point the hammer class mostly shines with spin attacks, but the battle hammer packs such a great tool with its normal attacks (range, attack pattern), its extremely well suited to overcome over agressive players. ive not focused so much on that weapon, but i love picking it up against a team of dba players.
now you got a huge list of playstyle analysis of those weapons in TDM, but you probably actually would have wanted a more artistic focused analysis.
i wrote that down, because, while looks and artistic design are extremely appealing on some weapons, the real love goes to the weapon gameplay mechanic. if you’d ask me, whether id like to have the broad sword in rune 2, id say hell yea – the first thing i think about is the fighting style and handling of the weapon and not so much the aesthetics.
the weapon mechanics are really important to us as rune players.
with that being said, i absolutely love the design of the dwarf battle axe and the viking broad sword and would really love to see them return in rune 2.
i also really loved the concept art around rune – not sure whether this comes from human head, but the design of the weapons as shown here:
are spot on. rune weapons need to be rugged, vicious and badass looking. i dont care so much (or at all lol) for historical correct weapons – maybe a few, like the viking sword, roman sword and viking axe – but, hell, look at that dws design. ive never seen a sword as awesome as that.
other than that i think its important to keep the rough weapon roster/balance of rune in place, including weapon tiers – there is a slight rock paper scissors thing going on between some weapon types – and i love how lower tier weapons can be really effective, even vs high tier weapons, like handaxe, broadsword, viking axe and trial pit mace. also weapon “crazyness” at high tier weapons is appreciated (like all highest tier rune weapons – they’re nuts – no one could ever fight with them – but hey, bad ass vikings can, right?)
i dont know what the fighting and weapons are going to be like in rune 2, but at this point i dont like the announcement of:
– bows ( i dont feel ranged weapons being a part of rune, but id like to have a look at it first before i judge)
– weapon stats (tho im not sure what this does mean – in rune 1 weapons had stats, too, but i think thats more RPG “stats”. imho a weapon, say DWS, must always exactly be the same, same range, same damage, same attack speed, same attacks).
– im concerned the rune weapon mechanics get “modernized” into some sort of ryse style of play. im praying to odin twice a day and offer sacrifices once a week that we’re not getting “locked on” combat – attacks and movement must be free all the time – thats what made rune special – also look at severance – blade of darkness, which is as old as rune, but features a locked on combat style. while it looks good and does feel good to club zombies into pieces, its very clunky and restrictive.
maybe the combat style concerns are arbitrary, but we’ve not yet seen anything about combat. i guess ull have to live with that, until you finally show us a tiny glimpse of combat. 😉
December 28, 2017 at 3:26 am #1611
I have been playing rune since release or so and I would like to give my short opinion as well, hoping you guys will release an awesome game like the first one;
I really liked the way combat was “free”. Like Dopefish mentioned above. No target-locking or stuff like that. Just free movements and aiming.
Furthermore, I’m also hoping they are going to be limiting finishing moves to, let’s say, boss fights and maybe sub-bosses in singleplayer. It looks really cool in Doom for example but it also feels a little interrupting in my opinion when happening too often. I can image I would be bothered if such a feature would be implemented in the original Rune, which was simple but also kinda fast paced at times and would occur pretty often when you execute a player or mob.
Overal I was pretty satisfied with most weapons in the original Rune. However, some weapons had a little awkward feeling. For me personally, the Dwarf Battle Sword felt a little weird because of its animations. The Viking Broad Sword, Dwarven Work Sword, Viking Axe, Dwarven Battle Axe and Roman Sword were my favorites because of their animations and/or looks. I have to admit as the others the VBS and DBA had one of the best details visually.
I also hope it’s going to be possible to chop off limbs off again and smack your foes to death with it like in the original. It gave a grim but also hilarious touch to the game without making the game look less serious.
Last little thing, maybe off-topic, but I was disappointed when I read there wasn’t going to be underwater exploring. I always really enjoyed the underwater levels in the first Rune as they were very atmospheric.
December 28, 2017 at 7:10 pm #1617
In the original Rune, I loved the weapons that WEREN’T cartoonishly huge, and allowed you to utilize a shield (like the vast majority of vikings would have).
My favorite server was the Low Calibre Arena, where only tier 1 and 2 weapons were available.
One of the reasons is the smaller (i.e. realistic sized) weapons took a lot more skill and thought to use, where as with the larger weapons you could spam your way to victory with massive swooping arcs and high damage.
I guess my big request is for viable 1-handed weapons even in late game. I don’t want to have to spam 2-handed hammers in late game in order to put out enough damage to be viable.
On a somewhat related note; more realistic and historical weapons would be great; the vikings were big on trade, so almost any contemporary weapon from Europe or western Asia could have conceivably found it’s way into some merchants stock.
December 30, 2017 at 3:58 am #1628
The two weapons I absolutely want to return are the Dwarfen Work Sword and the Dwarfen Battle Axe. And yes, the Battle axe should still be able to oneshot an enemy player with a good hit and the sword should still decapitate on precise hits. Also, throwing weapons and dodging should still be a thing. I’d maybe like to see a hotkey for dodging rather than the double tapping of the original game.
And of course like others also said, we all loved the combat in the original RUNE and would love for the new game to feel very simlar. Please don’t change the combat too much and remain the almost arena- FPS-like feeling to it. I think Quake Champions is a great example of how they kept the feel of the old quake games but still mixed it up enough to make it interesting and appealing to new players. The fast paced movement in this game is just as important as in quake. The way how you could use movement to pull off these fast sword swinging combos with the Dwarfen Work Sword was what really made it my favorite weapon and made this game to be such an amazing arena multiplayer experience.
Edit: And swing jumping of course!
January 18, 2018 at 7:03 am #1880
Weapons shouldn’t be balanced. They should be imbalanced.
How are you going to want the best weapons if they’re all equally good? It makes no sense.
Also, some of you guys thinking X weapons are imbalanced compared to Y would have gotten your asses kicked back in the day, lol.
January 18, 2018 at 8:03 am #1882
It is pretty hard to provide relevant feedback on this when we don’t know exactly how the system will work.
I mean, clearly we’ll have the different types of weapons, like axes, hammers, swords, spears and bows. But then I also guess there will be sub categories within these types. I doubt we only get 5 weapons of each type in this game.
Either way, a purely linear upgrade path like the original is not desirable. Sure, lower tier weapons mostly had some merit even after you got the next tier weapon, but generally, bigger just meant plain better.
Now, I really hope they design each weapon type to have distinct strengths. Like, there’s something that a certain type will be designed to do better. A sword is versatile, well balanced and fast, with many variations of the variables modified from one sword to the next. Axes kill shields and armor better and hammers knock people about easier, I dunno, just making examples. Point is, every weapon should be designed with a strength in mind, as opposed to the devs making good weapons and then simply creating lesser junk weapons to give players so they feel frustrated with them until they finally get a GOOD weapon and never pick up a lower tier one again.
The only linear upgrade would be material types. Like “Old iron ->Iron -> Steel -> Dvergastál/Dwarfsteel”, with higher tiers being lighter, stronger, more durable (if durability is a thing) and probably increased magical properties.
January 18, 2018 at 9:37 am #1884
I’m planning on writing up a longer, more in depth post on my thoughts on RUNE weapons in the future (Whenever I manage to get around to it, it’s a lot to sort through and assemble into something readable and comprehensible to an audience rather than a bunch of half baked non sense and highly abstract thoughts); but this topic makes me want to share a small portion of it now. I’ve always liked an admired quite a few of the systems in rune. But the weapon system, I think, was one of those things that was just golden when looked at more deeply.
To put into perspective the point I’m trying to make. It’s important to understand that Rune, at it’s very core, is a fighting game. It’s a strange fighting game. It’s a fighting game that moves like unreal tournament. It’s a fighting game that looks very different than most other fighting games one sees. But at the end of the day, at it’s core. Rune and a game like, say Street Fighter, in terms of combat, have very much in common. Many of the elements that one enjoys are present in one are in the other. I know many of us aren’t really fighting game fans. And, because of this, some might think that this assumption is false. After all, if you don’t like fighting games, but you like Rune, then, Rune can’t be the same thing, can it? I would still put forth that it very much is. It is simply a fighting game that cuts out a lot of the meta ‘bloat’ that many fighting games possess by eliminating ‘links’ in combat, and placing more stress on ‘footsies’ part of play. This, combines with a 3 dimensional environment, allowing for multiples to be engaged at once, allows for ‘death match’ style play and makes it something very different in feel, but still having a lot of commonality in it’s ‘core’. The lack of links and lack of need to memorize combos or drill meta strategies also does quite a successful job of tackling the ‘Fighting Game Problem’ (See video below), making it more accessible to new players (Albeit likely not having enough of these things for more traditional fighting game fans that actually -enjoy- the need to drill and study these things to become good at the game they are playing)
(I think Rune actually solved this problem simply by making the game more about movement, than memorizing link combos, and meta combos. The stuff he notes about the single player being a vehical for learning the combat system doesn’t really apply here, just the first half of it explaining ‘the video game problem’ is really relevant.)
Now, if one can accept what I have just stated, or, at least humor me for the purpose of this point; then one can understand when I say that the role, the purpose of weapons in rune, is, in actually, the same purpose that multiple characters play in fighting games themselves. If you think of the weapons beyond the idea of ‘this is a sword’ and think of it as ‘this is a character’, you begin to see the real beauty of what weapons serving as characters lends to the game. But, not only that, but how the concept can be taken even further than it was in the original game.Instead of thinking ‘Why would someone use this big axe’ – think, ‘Why do players like to play Chun li.. Why do players like to play Ryu? What archetypes have been done in other fighting games, and what made them appealing to certain players. Thinking of it like this, you begin to see all the awesome possibilities of a system like this offers. And, also, puts into perspective how to avoid some of the pitfalls of the original game where weapons tended to be ‘bigger is better’.
Not only that, but by having the role of this fighting game character being separate from the players identity, who is identifying with they viking warrior they are playing; (When we play Ryu, Ryu is -me-, But when I use a Dwarven battle Axe, I am -using- the Axe); we can actually switch ‘characters’ in the middle of battle, and have it feel completely natural, rather than an alien ‘tag out’ experience when the player identity is linked to the character, rather than a tool the player is wielding. This is a real strength to what can be done with a system like this, that, I think needs to be considered.
I think there are some really awesome possibilities here. Though, I will note some things I think need to be reminded. Notes on some key things that need to be kept in mind. They aren’t necessarily ‘laws to make it work’, as much as ‘things to keep in mind’.
1) Non Descriptive animations. Ryu has his own personality, As does Chun li, they way they fight, the way they move. However, with a ‘weapon as character’ system, the less personality, or the more general the personality shown in the animations, the more the illusion of the weapon being something wielded, versus being an actual character is maintained. Something I think is desirable, while keeping all the functionality of the weapons as character. Soul Cailiber, although allowed you to make your own characters, they always felt as if they were simply whoever’s fighting style you happened to choose. And the more personality the character fighting style has, the more of a disconnect there is. A custom character fighting like Voldo.. doesn’t feel like anyone but Voldo.. Because Voldo is a very expressive and unique character. So much of his animation oozes who he is, that, disconnecting him from who you are playing, in this case, your custom character; doesn’t really work. You never feel like ‘you’, you always feel like Voldo.
2) Same Skeleton: All characters need to have the same skeleton so they can share the same animations. Being able to change things like, the height of your character, while cool from an Expression Standpoint, will be pretty undesirable in terms of keeping the playing field level.
3) The pros of ‘Bigger is Better’. It’s important to note, that, while the ‘bigger is better’ system is, probably not desirable because of a lot of it’s short comings (Everyone just uses the big weapons, lack of variety in combat styles, etc) it -did- actually serve an important function in giving flow and pull to where players moved in death match style play. Because certain weapons were bigger, more powerful, and thus, more desirable, it created and important goal in how players would move and navigate the maps. So, if a more ‘balanced’ weapon system is implemented. Some other ‘thing’ is going to need to step up and fill the void to give desirable goals of movement in maps. This being, if ‘death match’ as we know it even makes it into Ragnarok.
I was going to type something short.. But this is a big subject, I think. Anyways, that’s my thoughts.
January 24, 2018 at 4:46 am #2103
Making some really good points there. I am torn about this though. While, in original Rune, I did like how every weapon behaved and felt different, I didn’t like how you could only do certain combos if you had a specific weapon. You want to make a bunch of side-sweeping forward attacks? Tough, you need to have a short sword or goblin axe.
I mean, I want weapons to have their own characteristics, and behave differently. Different swing arcs, stances, speed, recovery time, knockback and so on. But I don’t want to be hard-locked into a specific moveset and combo pattern.
January 18, 2018 at 2:06 pm #1893
my name is Sara, i like low cal. the toothpick is my favorite. i think all the big axe hopping is silly but i am ok with fighting against it. it does get a little old that it is the only thing a lot of people ever do. personally i would make the weight of weapons actually mean something. make people learn to use the weapons instead of relying on a well practiced hop for easy kills. but i wont cry if you dont. i have been in rune since the start of it. to this day i have not found a game to match it, it is my all time favorite game. i love that it is a skill based game. you have to learn to master your weapons in order to become a formidable warrior. i think if you take this away you will be ruining all that makes rune stand out above all other games. screw leveling up to become more powerful. learn to use your weapon effectively to become more powerful! for rune i am very against going to a leveling up system. my thought for combat is as follows. why not add something like a walk mode that gives whatever weapon you are using a different kind of swing pattern than when you are in run mode? that way you could switch back and forth and further customize your personal fighting style. i kinda use that with crouching to throw my opponents off guard sometimes. you can do combo-crouch swings if you time things right. as i stated i love low cal the most so i really want to see my low cal weapons in ragnarok. i hope all weapons in rune are carried into ragnarok and i hope more are added but i mostly want to see the toothpick aka viking shortsword and roman short and the goblin axe. in real life i have spent my life training with a staff so i would love to have a fighting staff as my 2 hand weapon. as is i usually choose sigurds axe for 2 hand just cause its an underdog alternative to the hopfest obsession and you can taunt a worksword weaver with sigs weave. i will sometimes go to other modes but i am a taw at heart, therefore i hope to have arena fighting readily available to me in ragnarok as well as the adventursome stuffs. ok, i am done yapping now. gl all and come play arena with me in rune! oh and hey devs, let me into beta!!!
January 23, 2018 at 4:17 pm #2067
I’ll just say this; the Dwarven Battle Axe might be OP, but it’s design, visually, is one of my favorite in all of gaming. From the giant size to the asymmetrical blade heads, it’s just amazing, and beautiful. I’d really like it or something like it to return for that alone.
January 23, 2018 at 8:03 pm #2080
I have to agree with Levy, here. The new axe in the trailers just doesnt do it for me as much as the old dba. It feels more like a replacement for sigurds axe, rather than a successor to the dba. A lot of this, to me, is the battle stance as well as the design. I loved the hunched over grip of the old rune heavy axe/hammers, it really enforced that impossibly large head, and the new grip.. the what Well call the sigurd axe grip, doesnt convay that nearly as well.
I try not to be negative, or nit picky to much. I mean, im human. I have my opinions like ever one else. But I understand these are just mu opinions.
Still, that being said. It’s just, I see this stance in a lot of games and its well, it doesnt look good. The hunched over grip isnt realistic, mind you; but neither is the sigurd axe grip. So, if were going to have a choice beween two grips, niether of which are realistic, why not pick the one more visually appealing.. and the one that isnt used in ever other game? Atleast the hunched over grip gave that over sized axe/hammer head a sense of weight rather than a floating sheet of lightweight metal.
January 24, 2018 at 5:12 am #2104
After seeing the trailer, which is awesome btw, I can give more of an opinion on what weapons we’ve seen so far.
I’ll repeat some of the things I said about the battle axe which is the weapon we’ve seen the most of. I don’t have a problem with the general concept. It’s very similar to the Dwarven Battle Axe, which is really awesome looking. However, I want it to look like it makes sense within the setting. The spike on top isn’t in a place where it can to anything. The point of axe blade is too close, so all that spike does, is add weight. I know, it’s a game, but small things like that does make a difference. The axe head is also too thick. It’s not as bad as many other games, but it needs to be trimmed down more. Excess weight is the LAST thing you want in a weapon. So, again, look at the design for the original Dwarven Battle Axe. It looks really thin and razor sharp. That makes sense, and looks so much better.
Actually, I encourage everyone, including devs, to look at this video, where he talks a lot of sense about axes.
Yeah, I know, Rune; Ragnarok is not trying to be historically accurate, but to understand the fundamentals behind why weapons were designed as they were will only allow you to use that knowledge to make your weapons look even better. Even in a fictional setting!
Another thing he spoke about is my main problem with the design; the haft. I really don’t like the Battle Axe haft design. It has too much going on, like, it’s made of metal, has a bunch of weird rings, and a weird mace head at the bottom of it. This is all hugely adding to the weight of the thing. And just looks…. not very good. Just lose that entire haft. A wooden haft would look so much better. With some leather wrapped around it, maybe some runes carved into it and whatnot. And a final thing, which is more minor, is that it would be better with an oval shaped haft, instead of round. He mentions why in the video too. Yeah, it’s a very minor thing, but would make it look even better. If it was wooden.
– Lose the spike
– Thin down the head
– Replace the current haft with a wooden one.
….. and then it would look grand.
January 24, 2018 at 5:52 am #2106
I just realised I never said what my favorite weapons were in the original.
Well, they were the Roman Sword and the Viking Axe.
The Roman Sword because it reminded me the most of a typical viking age sword, and I loved the stance and the attacks. The whole “roman” thing annoyed me though. I on more than one occasion considered trying to make a replacement model for it, but never got around to it.
The Viking Axe because…. it’s just badass! Again, loved the stance, and the attacks just felt heavy and brutal. I liked the design on the axe, except the way the blade was attached to the haft in two places. I kept thinking that would make it impossible to slide the hand up and hold it just under the head, with the edge covering your knuckles. I guess if the Viking Axe returns, I’d prefer if it looked more like a bearded axe. But a very brutal, hard-hitting one. Other than that, I’d say the Viking Axe is my absolute favorite weapon from Rune Classic.
January 24, 2018 at 9:54 am #2111
I want all kinds of weapons. From historical to fantasy but PLEASE do add a way to cosmetically change it. This should go for armor as well. We don’t want to be endgame clones!
Best cosmetic system so far i saw was in LOTRO. Your character has another special tab with all gear slots but whatever you put there only changes visually.
Another great system is what Diablo 3 has with transmog vendor for ingame currency.
January 24, 2018 at 10:45 am #2114
I will now talk about Rune Ragnarok Trailer and my feelings on the weapon dynamics of old Rune, for just over one hour, all while wielding a pink broom.
This isn’t as good as it could have been, and I do loose what I’m saying a few times, but considering I didn’t really have a script or anything, it’s not to bad. Also, if anyone disagrees with my points (or agrees) feel free to chat about it here, cause I’m curious on what others thing.
January 24, 2018 at 9:37 pm #2173
Im having nothing but trouble uploading this video v.v
January 25, 2018 at 2:22 pm #2228
Hope this works. Should be 5 videos, auto playing one after the other. The run time is just over one hour.
Yes. I can talk about Rune weapons for an hour.
Anyone with the patience to give it a watch (or listen) please feel free to leave your thoughts. Curious to hear people’s thoughts.
January 26, 2018 at 1:17 pm #2273
Finally got the time to listen to the whole thing, and you make some really good points and observations. Not really much for me to disagree with.
Only thing I can really criticize is that the volume seemed a bit low, and it could do with some editing to get a better flow and get it more concise. But that’s about it.
But yeah…. I agree wholeheartedly with the battle axe stance! Like you say, it works for swords, although the stance is…. meh…. But not for hammers or axes,
Interesting observation though…. Look at the enemies in the trailer at about 0:55. It looks better, although the hands should be wider… but, I hope this is a sign that different stances is a thing. I really hope they will start talking about the combat system in the footage they say will be shown in the next few weeks.
January 30, 2018 at 1:50 pm #2349
The most important thing for me related to the weapons, is how the player moves when weapons are used. I don’t want the attack moves to be static and predictable. I want to be able to adjust to the enemies movement and actions at any point. I want to feel the player moving. I want to feel gravity and acceleration of the player and the weapons. Big heavy weapons should feel heavy, small weapons should feel light and fast. Also, if I jump forward I should be able to control the player in the air to some degree. And when I run in a direction and suddenly go the opposite direction there should be some delay for the player to slow down and change direction.
You got most of these things right in the first Rune , but I think it could be improved and be even better. I am still waiting for the perfect melee fighting game that gets all these things right, please try to do that with Rune Ragnarok.
February 15, 2018 at 4:24 am #2550
from my side, one handed Dwarven Battle Sword, must not be the deadlies weapon!!! and in the other hand head of the victim 😀
Thanx a lot!
February 19, 2018 at 4:20 pm #2588
Please do keep the jump-spin attack!
February 19, 2018 at 6:48 pm #2589
April 28, 2018 at 9:49 am #3662
I really like the general design on the weapons we’ve seen so far. I could nitpick, but overall, I like them. Sure, some do not have any particularly “Nordic Viking”-feel to them, such as the Short Sword…. but neither did that sword in Rune Classic. Also, this 2H sword design from the new RUNE is more “knightly” looking but given the fictional setting and that the Short Sword is generally the same style, I don’t mind as much. It’s really well designed!
Then there’s the Broad Sword:
I really like the general design! Nice and chunky and Vikingly! I am sorry to say this is the one, so far, I really feel like nitpicking a bit about though 😛
There’s only two things really. The quillons, and the grip. The quillons simply should go. The grip looks like it’s back-to-front. The thicker part should be near the guard, and the thinner part near the pommel. I know, this is a ridiculously minor thing, and something most probably won’t even notice or care about.
Anyway, I did a very rough edit to show my take on it.
I think that looks really awesome!
Now, Human Head’s vision is their vision, and if that’s the way they want it to look, that’s the way they want it to look. But if nothing else, I at least hope a variant like my mockup will be available in the game. 🙂
(Pardon if this becomes a double or even triple post. It got really messed up after I edited, and it vanished.)
June 25, 2019 at 5:48 pm #11034
The moveset for the Roman Broad Sword was the best! Also the Dwarf Work Sword was op as tits.
Most of the hammers were too clunky, where I only found the last two to be good (Wooden hammer was awesome)
For me the best axe’s were the Viking Axe, becaused it was balanced with good damage and a good moveset. The goblin axe had a fun rune power and the Dwarven Battle Axe had insane damage, but was too slow to wield.
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