November 17, 2019 at 7:08 pm #11677
THE LOKI FIGHT:
Issue: The whole Loki being the villain yet you meet him frequently during the gameplay totally takes away from the climax that the whole fight should give.
SOLUTION: The Colossal Loki staring at you is an awesome idea. Leave him like this for several fights. Let his little minions, soldiers, captains take the fight against you at first, little bosses and such.
So for the first 3 or 4 LOKI FIGHTS would be all about different number of waves of these minions, soldiers. At first it is only 1 or 2 waves, then 3 and 4 etc. (What I also love about the current version of RUNE II is there are variations of enemies that you will fight against these LOKI FIGHTS, like GIANTS even, that is a good refreshment). From the 4th, 5th encounter you would fight with bigger bosses, and at the end LOKI would surprise you by coming down and fighting you. This would be more adequate narrative for this whole Boss Battle and more close to Loki’s persona; he wouldn’t see you worthy to just fight him personaly, you, as a warrior would have to show him that you are indeed somebody that could lead him to his demise.
ANOTHER SOLUTION: Giving different type of fighting style to LOKI; yes, there are a few right now, like the thousand swords thrown at you, and the meteors. Give him FIVE more at least, and don’t make him move in the same way everytime you fight him. Make different variations of his fighting style/combos; (1) at one of the encounters LOKI would use some of his abilities during this fight, (2) at another encounter he would use totaly different abilities and fighting techniques/combos. This would make him less predictable, and would totaly make the fights more rewarding.
SO OVERALL I WOULD MAKE THE FIGHTS LIKE THIS:
I. LOKI FIGHT – 1 or 2 waves of minions
II. LOKI FIGHT – definitely 2 waves with some special minions like Giants
III. LOKI FIGHT – 3 or 4 waves of minions, special minions
IV. LOKI FIGHT – 4 waves, special minions, little bosses
V. LOKI FIGHT – 4-5 waves, special minions, little bosses, probably LOKI
VI. LOKI FIGHT – 5 waves, same things, LOKI
What would also spice these fights are the occasional weather changes; (1) Like huge fog during the fight you could barely see anything, (2) Pitch black darkness where you, again, barely see anything
And probably what could also definitely work for the Vigrid Plain; different ARENAs for the fight, probably with more platform elements even.
Spice the LOKI FIGHT however you can Dev-team, good luck, keep it up!!! And please whoever reads this can add whatever idea he wants to the LOKI FIGHT topic, let’s make it badass!
November 17, 2019 at 7:44 pm #11680
After you have successfully defeated LOKI the game difficulty should scale higher a bit, so the players would face newer obstacles, new challenges to the game, and of course, it gives replayability to RUNE II.
November 18, 2019 at 5:56 am #11685
+1, i like the idea and it makes a lot more sence then the current system!
November 18, 2019 at 7:25 am #11687
November 18, 2019 at 8:54 am #11691
Perhaps a decent idea if they aim to keep the current game loop of facing Loki over and over.
I think that very loop is fundamentally flawed for this game, and needs fixed. We should face Loki once at the end of the game. That’s it, in my opinion. We could perhaps encounter him once before that, but not being able to fight him.
Here’s how I’d imagine it (I’ve already changed things a bit since my long post);
We begin the campaign on a starter island. Heimdall talks to you, goes through the details, Ragnarök is endless, Loki is hiding somewhere, yadda yadda.
But then, the immediate objective will be to find out where Loki actually is! So we’re led on a pretty linear quest to begin with, but we’ll end up destroying one of these runestones or whatever that keep Loki hidden. When this happens, Heimdall somehow comes up with a way for us to kind of peek past the web to see where Loki is hiding. Heimdall cannot see into that place for himself, so he places a spell on us, or gives us an amulet or whatever so he can see through our eyes. We step into Loki’s hiding place, and that’s where we encounter him the first time. Pretty much like when we see him at the end of the Age of Awakening now. Just talking shit to us then throwing us out.
Now Loki is wise to us, so he kind of plugs that hole, making it impossible for us to enter again, except by
destroying all runestones and breaking the seal.
Luckily, Heimdall was able to recognize that this was the Vigrid plain. Then begins the quest to destroy the runestones or whatever that serve as locks that keeps Loki sealed away.
Then we destroy them all, finally enter Vigrid plains again, fights Loki’s guards, and then Heimdall somehow forces Loki to fight us himself, and we beat his ass into the ground. The End.
November 18, 2019 at 10:22 am #11701
But my concept wouldn’t about facing Loki over and over. We would be transported into the Vigrid plain the same way as it is now, but Loki would only come down in the final fight, when you have proven that you are somebody that is dangerous to him. Nothing wrong with that. Probably what should be more polished is when Loki would realise that you are somekind of a danger, and yeah, probably only in the second half of the gameplay. Because right after the first Loki fight Loki is talking to you… yeah, that is probably a bad narrative, Loki should ignore you like for 4-5 Ages, then after the fifth Vigrid plain fight he would start to mock you, trying to keep you out from the Vigrid plain, making it harder for you to get there even etc.
– That’s why it would be needed to have different numbers of waves with different creatures, so that the whole Vigrid plain concept would be kept as an ARENA aspect of the game, where you can get rare items, and feeling well rewarded for the really hard battles you have fought there.
– This Vigrid plain portion of the game would happen on different arenas, but it would choose randomly what environment are you gonna fight the enemies: different maps, some of them are more complex than the other, some of them have platforming parts, so the player should have to jump on another platforms etc. many possibilities here, and the most important: not so repetitive gameplay, because different places, different enemies, different challenges that can be really hard, but can be really rewarding.
If we look at some of the indie games out there, especialy arena/boss battle kinds, then RUNE II is not that different from them. There is nothing wrong with going in circles during the gameplay, it is in the story, Loki manipulated the whole Ragnarok, so it is explained. It’s like DON’T STARVE/SURVIVED BY/ZOMBIE PARTY combined. But still needs to be polished even from this aspect, but I definitely wouldn’t take out any mechanics from it, because this is a perfect fundation, now the elements just gotta be organic with each other. I don’t mind the story, the story won’t keep the replayability for the game, its mechanics will.
November 18, 2019 at 10:41 am #11702
Good suggestions Dexter!
November 19, 2019 at 10:31 am #11715
I was just thinking that there could be mazes, labyrinths before the “LOKI FIGHTS”
(similar to the ones that were in RUNE CLASSIC
These could take part in later LOKI FIGHTS (after around the 4th, 5th), when LOKI is well aware of you, and wants to make more difficult for you to get to the Vigrid Plain, so in the begining you would easily get into the Arena where Loki is staring at his minions fighting a nobody, then the stronger your reputation gets the more LOKI wants you out of the picture, keeping you out from this ARENA, where the FINAL BATTLE would take place, he would twist things, manipulate things around you so you, as a player would be more pissed off at him at the end, so when you would finally fight LOKI at the FINAL BATTLE, the climax would be more built up with this maze/labyrinth episodes.
Also, there would be a time limit to get through these mazes. You would get through one maze to another maze, and if you finish them really slowly, then you wouldn’t have time to get into the Vigrid Plain, you would be teleported back to the world continuing the game in another Age, so you, as a player, have missed out a “Loki fight”.
So, for example, there would be 2 mazes at least, and you have 5 minutes to finish them. If you not finish them before the 5 minutes run out, then you have failed, you are teleported back.
And there could be mazes in PITCH BLACK, where you have only one torch to get through, there could be mazes with different traps etc. many possibilities again that would freshen up the whole Vigrid Plain concept.
November 19, 2019 at 4:22 pm #11732
Thanks for the discussion everyone! As you all know our situation is quite peculiar and while we can’t directly address these right now, this time is a good chance to step back and consider new angles. Your input will be helpful. Thank you.
November 19, 2019 at 5:55 pm #11744
This is probably the last LOKI FIGHT suggestion I wanna put out there for you guys. I have made a “graph” for the whole concept I have been discussing here:
It might be autistic, it might be terrible for some, I’m not the best at math and such, but you can see the whole angle at the RNG that would go behind the whole LOKI FIGHT/VIGRID PLAIN episode of the game.
– So there are probabilites for MAZEs after the 4th LOKI FIGHT,
– There is always a chance you will get an extra weather effect both in the MAZE and the ARENA,
– There could be at least five different MAPs/ARENAs
– You will have a chance to kill LOKI after the 5th LOKI FIGHT
– The sooner you make through all the Vigrid plains without “total death” (running out of all life you had) the sooner you will get the chance to fight LOKI personaly. The more you suffer “total death” on these LOKI FIGHTS the more LOKI loses his interest in you, hence you will fight him much later. The higher you get on the LOKI FIGHT list without death there is less chance for LOKI losing interest in you radicaly. So if you suffer “total death” (again, you run out of all extra life) sooner on the list (like for example II. or III. LOKI FIGHT) you will lose your reputation more radicaly compared to when you die at the VI. or higher LOKI FIGHTs)
– If you get MAZEs before a LOKI FIGHT, you will get better reward after you completed that LOKI FIGHT.
So, again, this is just an idea, concept that might help the team improve the whole Vigrid plain section, in my oppinion this would make it better compared to what we have right now, which is not bad, but beholds way more potential.
So, good luck team, all the best for you! We trust you!
November 26, 2019 at 6:12 am #11809
JUST A THOUGHT ABOUT THE POST-LOKI FIGHT GAMEPLAY:
So there is you, and the others who whorship some of the gods, and there are the people who just fight for the hell of it, most notably LOKI worshipers. I don’t know what your plan is for the end-game, and for the finishing strokes of the gameplay; currently there are two choices (1) you end your game (2) you continue this whole AGE MECHANIC – LOKI FIGHT thing
If you want to keep this, then I have an idea for that:
LOKI is defeated, yes. Why some people worship him, I have no idea, but if they still worship him they want to take revenge on you in his name. So they might wanna keep this whole LOKI ARENA going, but instead of LOKI being there they are coming and have the deep desire to finish you off; These can be (again) random numbers of waves, and random smaller-bigger bosses, ALSO similar BIG BOSSES as LOKI was.
This would be like a Diablo 3 late-game mechanic (bounties), if people want to continue their game then give’em reason to continue. You can also make leaderboards for these ARENA fights, different achievement lists to give the players to fight for.
The main point of this narratively simply would be you, who wanted to end Ragnarok, to stop LOKI taking advantage of Midgard wants to cleanse the whole land from these very-very-very bad people in this whatever plain where the time is non-linear and ages change non-stop, as after LOKI being killed off new, more violent LOKI believers would come to make MIDGARD and YOU suffer.
OH AND ANOTHER THING (I WILL ADD THIS TO MY 4th AID POST LATER TOO, AS IT IS MORE FITTING THERE TOPICLY):
There were these huge RUNESTONES in RUNE 1 which through people could teleport to another plains (CONRACK could teleport to your homeland, then at the end you could teleport right to the Rainbow bridge).
There could be random RUNESTONES like this placed on randomized places in the world (probably different ones in different AGES) through which you could teleport to totally different new areas, locations, plains.
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